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Every time that I think that the world can’t get any crazier I am proven flat wrong. Four California high-school students were reportedly suspended for chanting “U.S.A! U.S.A!” and wearing American flag bandanas during a basketball game. While their punishment has since been rescinded, school administrators said “the incident is far from over.”
Oxnard Union School District superintendent Gabe Soumakian told Fox News Radio that “we need to pursue this further” and “work with teachers and students and the community about the concept of cultural proficiency.” Soumakian and Camarillo High School principal Glenn Lipman felt that the students’ actions might have had racist undertones since the schools have large Hispanic student populations. “We wanted to make sure [their actions weren't] racially motivated, and I told the kids I just want to be sensitive to the feelings of everybody,” Lipman said.
Just so that no one thinks that I am not correctly reporting on the tone of the incident, here it is:
How horrible!! Four boys showing the love of their country by leading a supportive chant at a basketball game in a completely supportive and non-violent way. Luckily the school authorities stepped in and stopped the boys before they did something really bad like leading the crowd through the pledge of allegiance or (shudder) reading from the Constitution.
As a country we really have lost our way. The principal of the school was afraid that chanting “USA” could have racist undertones because of the large hispanic population at the school. First, last I checked we had a Bill of Rights that said we had the freedom to express ourselves and second how is the racial make-up of the school relevant to patriotism? According to the principal’s logic, if you are not white you are not pro-America. That is utter nonsense. I would think that most Hispanics would be insulted to be called less patriotic than others. Why would any hispanic be threatened or insulted by patriotism?
If there is a group of Hispanics at the school that are anti-American, I do support their right to express their feelings – just not to the exclusion of those of us that love our country expressing our views as well. Democracy and free speech are messy things and they are impossible concepts to have without someone being offended. There is nothing in our Constitution that protects you from being offended and the schools actions here are reprehensible and distinctly un-American. We wonder why our schools are struggling to perform, well this is Exhibit A.
HotAir
Gabe,
I am stunned by your recent actions suspending those 4 students over showing pride in their nation. What is wrong with showing pride in your nation whether Hispanic or White? Your actions should be reviewed and action taken. I have sent this article to all our customers and friends. How can you possibly be in charge of the education and development of today’s youth when you clearly have denied them their civil rights? You should be ashamed!!
Here is the email address of this unpatriotic administrator Gabe,
I am stunned by your recent actions suspending those 4 students over showing pride in their nation. What is wrong with showing pride in your nation whether Hispanic or White? Your actions should be reviewed and action taken. I have sent this article to all our customers and friends. How can you possibly be in charge of the education and development of today’s youth when you clearly have denied them their civil rights? You should be ashamed!!
Gabe.Soumakian@ouhsd.k12.ca.us
Rush to judgement without all the facts.
Anyone surprised?
Snoopy, you say you want all of the facts and then in your other responses you jump to conclusions that support your argument without ANY supporting facts. Michael has expressed his opinion directly to the Superindent of the School District which is exactly the right person. I encourage others to follow Michael’s lead.
Lol, I bought an anti-Obama bumper sticker for my car and now any garage I go to that is owned/operated by a minority tries to take advantage of me.
Silly liberals, the truly intelligent don’t think or vote with their hearts.
It is this type of comment that the students were probably “countering”. I’m guessing the investigation will show that the Latinos (Hispanic refers to those from Spain and region, not the Latinos of South American regions) were showing some sort of Latino “pride”…maybe dared utter something in Spanish…and these students “reacted” with their chants. Makes no sense that “USA” would be an unprovoked chant in a local, local, local environment. If it was a reaction, it could easily be considered racially motivited (not racist – racially motivated).
And does the above comment fall within the rules of being on topic, Mr. Willis? I think not. Will it be removed or moderated or will the racist attack be allowed to remain due to it being a far right wing sentiment? And you haven’t answered whether we are “allowed” to counter the “arguments” of others’ comments or whether we must “stay on topic” of the authored post. Please advise and give consent (permission?), Mr. Willis.
I wonder if the hard-working, successful private business owners the poster is referring to have put on their menus a different price for liberals and conservatives such as one celebrated conservative did recently. Hmmmmm. I’m sure that was thought to be a “patriotic” move on that business owner’s part by his comrades.
I don’t put pro-Obama stickers on my car as there is just too much crazy in this country. I can’t take the chance of a bullet whizzing by because of a piece of vinyl on a bumper.
Snoopy proves over and over what a ‘yammering idiot’ is.
Technically a violation of the no personal attacks rule. But since Snoopy has filed 36 comments to this blog in this week alone with 27 of those primarily consisting of personal attacks, I will allow it. Snoopy, you have shifted from commenting to trying to shut down dialogue here. Engage or move on.
Michael, thank you for providing the email address:
Mr. Soumakian,
I was absolutely floored to read that these students were suspended from school for chanting U.S.A. and showing pride in their country! You run a school district that receives funding from the government correct? The United States of America government? Isn’t the point that many illegal immigrants (er…undocumented workers?) are trying to make is that they want to be Americans? Shouldn’t this “incident” be used to show our youth of all races and backgrounds that having pride in your country of citizenship is a valuable quality rather than a punishable offense? Are we now going to stop cheering for our youth football teams because women might be offended? Are we going to stop championing our honor students because those who “only got B’s” would be offended? Seriously, if you’re going to take on the responsibility of running an entire school district then I would sincerely hope you would have a better sense of judgment. Honestly, I would hope that someone running a school district in the United States would have a heart full of American pride himself. Thank you for your time.
Well said, Robert.
:dialogue engaged: (click…buzzz…whiiiirl)
Love the red herrings, Robert. I’m sure Gabe will pick up on them as easily as I did. Please post his reply.
After reviewing the extremely short clip Mr. Willis provided, it appears that the bandana boys were doing a little inciting of some sort. As I stated previously in an uncensored post, most likely a response to a perceived injustice perpetrated by a Latino student or the rival team/visiting students. Looks like the bandana boys breaking the Flag Code by using our flag on their sweaty heads may have been offended by someone else’s exercising their freedom of expression. I think if it was just local rivalry, then the school’s locale or team motto/mascot would have been the chant du jour. “Adolfo Adolfo Adolfo” would have been appropriate. There’s much more to this than just chanting USA for “civic pride”. I think we’ll find this was indeed racially motivated, just as we now know Fox was wrong about the two maids Dorner tied up.
Of course I like the author’s continued equating one with all and the destruction of the country by the youth. i think I’ll heed LaPierre’s advice today and get some more guns and ammo for when it all collapses next week. I already have my Henny Penny costume to wear to greet the throngs of rioters and thieves.
I am so tired of reading posts that are Anti-America, I am an American and very happy to be here. I am stupified that its such a problem to shout USA USA. It looked to me that many students were shouting it so how did they decided to accuse just four people?Suspended for such a violation. sick, nothing but sickness is taking over what was once a great country. If people who are immigrants are offended why are they here? Years ago people came to America for many reasons, why are they still coming? If you live in AMERICA and find it bothersome to hear USA being chanted, perhaps its time to move elsewhere!
GOD bless AMERICA because its certainly needed!
This was to be expected.
We as a nation have bent so far overbackwards no to insult any other ethnic nationality living here in the USA, we have forgotten
no matter how many illegal nationalities there are here this is still the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, and it is time to regain our stance of patritism towards OUR country and stand up for OUR country.
All you immigrants, you came here of your free will. Start showing your patritism to the new country YOU chose.
earn OUR language, learn OUR customs.
Become one of US or get your ass back where you came from.
And to the principal and superintendent, Kiss my ass you traitorous scum.
You need you ass kicked for this.
Suspended for chanting USA. HOW RACIST! God forbid we offend an illegal. I am very curious what would have happened if they were chanting “MEXICO, MEXICO”? I’ll tell you exactly what would have happened. NOTHING. We have truly fallen apart as a country. America will continue to become a “worse” place to live. It is so terribly sad. I really do fear for my new born daughters future. God help us.
I had 4 pages I spent 30 minutes writing. only to have this lame website erase it all because the captcha said it wasn’t entered right{it was}. Thanks for wasting my time.
NOTE REGARDING CAPTCHA AND LOST ENTRY
The CAPTCHA apparently has a “time-out” function. A simple fix is to refresh the CAPTCHA 4 times and then enter the new code. This will avoid your losing the text already typed in the Comment box.
I’ve learned to type my long narratives for FB or blog sites using my word processor program. I then can do all editing, spell checking, etc. there until I have it the way I want it to be read. I then copy and paste it on the site where I want it to be seen.
After I copy and paste successfully, I can delete the word processing file. This saves me from losing my work if anything goes wrong while I’m trying to post it.
The FACTS are trickling in:
“The four students wearing the bandannas came to the Scorpion Dome for the JV and varsity rivalry games. Valenzuela said that between the games, an associate principal came over to the stands and warned students not to curse or make racial comments. The school official saw the bandannas and told the four students to remove them or leave, Valenzuela said.
The four went outside, then ran back inside the gym at halftime with their bandannas on and began chanting “USA, USA.” The four were ushered out and given five-day suspensions, which were later rescinded, Valenzuela said.
Principal Glenn Lipman, however, said Thursday that the students were not suspended but were asked to leave campus and meet in his office Thursday morning.”
Disregard for authority and ignoring said authority’s instructions. Returned for sole purpose of inciting crowd. What would the headlines read had this escalated into a violent brawl, which could easily occur given the level of teen testosterone and rebellious nature?
Yes, first accounts are rarely accurate. More credence was apparently put in the students’ inaccurate accounting than the professional administrator. Fox should have done a little more “investigating” before “reporting” half a story. More lies of omission.
Article cited above is from Ventura County Star. Sorry for not giving proper credit where credit is due.
This is not at all inconsistent with anything in the post. Mr. Valenzuela was out of line demanding that the bandanas not be removed and was out of line squelching a USA chant – period. If someone in “authority” told me to stop exercising my legitimate rights I would ignore them as well.
:dialogue engaged: (click…buzzz…whiiiirl)
Minor student Valenzuela and the Bandana Boys chose to leave instead of removing the bandanas that violated the Flag Code, as instructed by the authority figure charged with keeping order. (Why the quotes around ‘authority’, Mr. Willis? Do you question the authority of a school administrator?)
The minor students then returned with an “in your face” disrespect for said authority, Flag bandana’s on sweaty heads. This disrespect for authority is the REAL problem with society. The intent was to incite and provoke the crowd, possible to a frenzied point of a violent outcome had they not been escorted BACK out. It is obvious their “patriotism” is a ruse by smart alec juveniles seeking sympathy and playing it up to a reporter.
Of course the students were not suspended, but the story, and all the right-wing aggregators and most of the posters here, ran with the student’s suspension line, despite the facts emerging to the contrary.
You fail to see that the minor students under the rules of the school and its administrators do not have the same “rights” as adults. As a lawyer, you should know that. But you keep defending these hooligans while attacking the authority figures under the guise of Free Speech. My opinion stands, and is valid, that the “USA” chant was solely to incite, provoke and skirt authority, and most likely racially motivated.
Sorry Snoopy, white people don’t brawl because someone comes into a stadium and chants USA. I can’t imagine anyone would use such an occasion to riot, testosterone or not.
(Racially sensitive European soccer goons exempted, or course.)
It was racist for a school official to tell Americans to remove the bandanas. Of course, he probably felt wearing them would incite “other” people to riot so it’s ok.
:dialogue engaged: (click…buzzz…whiiiirl)
Sorry, Matt, but rebellious youth such as these 4 do, in fact, incite and provoke to the point of violence. Are you saying there are no physical confrontations, ever, when testosterone laden, adrenaline rushing, rebellious, incorrigible, defiant youth assemble and are incited at high school sporting events? Xenophobia is alive and well in the USA USA USA and I still maintain that it is precisely this xenophobia and “youthful exuberance” that caused these students to defy instructions of the authority figure charged with keeping order in a heated competition. Had these “white people” not been kept in check, the headlines could very well have been quite different.
I do have to ask…what “color” people you think would escalate from voices to violence? Methinks it is you who is the racist with your racial connotations of who would and who wouldn’t resort to violence since you brought skin color into the discussion.
Kudos on the selective mention of only “testosterone” when I indicted many other factors that could have led to physical confrontation. A common trait of the right when unwilling to address anything but what’s convenient or comfortable.
I’m reminded of a World War I song titled, “Don’t Bite the Hand That’s Feeding You”. The ending of the song says:
“If you don’t like the stars in Old Glory,
If you don’t like the Red, White and Blue,
Then don’t act like the cur in the story,
Don’t bite the hand that’s feeding you!
Unless I’m mistaken, in the video I see people of different ethnicity shouting “USA, USA., USA . . . “. So “Where’s the beef?”
So you’re ok with minor incorrigible youth inciting a crowd, possibly to a violent brawl, just because “USA” is the chant? Inciting is inciting, and not excusable because “USA” is the chant.
The leading of the chant was an obvious affront to the authority of the administrator and/or the opposing team(s) and I posit ethnically motivated, regardless of the makeup of those chanting it.
Students: incite. Administrator: insight.
What is this Flag Code that states the bandanas should not be worn, Snoopy? I guess I should be afraid to ride my American Flag painted Harley in the Fourth of July parade wearing my American Flag teeshirt so that I don’t offend the liberals. Not!!! USA! USA! chant along
:dialogue engaged: (click…buzzz…whiiiirl)
While there are no penalties for breaking the Official Flag Code, feigning “patriotism” while simultaneously disrespecting the Flag is rather disingenuous, don’t you think? But that’s the selectively cited and selective fauxrage of the typical right-winger…and the arrogance of these incorrigible youth.
United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1, Section 8, Subsection d. will give you the answer you seek. In the future, do your own research, please.
And for the record, I could care less how your Harley is painted, or what you put on your t-shirt. It’s the convenience of selectivity I take issue with. Or hypocrisy, as it’s commonly known. You probably offend more staid and purist Conservatives than free-spirited liberals. But then you wouldn’t be able to attack liberals if it weren’t for false narratives. Kudos for slipping in the “technical” personal attack.
Well maybe if authority didnt try to show their power in any way they could by demanding the removal of some fucking bandanas then maybe it wouldnt piss me off and make them react the way the students did. Is their reaction not american? since when did complete unnecessary compliance become american?
“ANARCHY!(usa)ANARCHY!(usa)ANARCHY!(usa)”
Who the f*%$ cares about “disrespecting” the flag… its just a flag.. the flag isnt important, its the people and culture that the flag represents thats important.
My guess would be about 99% of Americans care about disrespecting the Flag.
join NumbersUSA.com it’s a site for lowering levels of immigration and preventing amnesty. get involved by sending free faxes to your representatives with one mouse click.
Camarillo, California is in the northwest part of the Greater Los Angeles Megalopolis.
It, and the greater San Francisco Bay Area, which extends to Sacramento, are the bastions of Liberalism on the West Coast.
It’s California. What would you expect but lunacy.
I see what you’ve tried to do with your comment. Trying to equate “liberalism” with “lunacy”.
Would this fall into the “attempt at censorship from the right” and trying to “shut down dialogue” with attacks on nearly half the country’s valid ideologies?
Would it be a “personal attack” if I was to say the same “lunacy” easily applies to conservatism”?
America what happened to you? Greatest country on earth, home of the free and the brave. I for one am glad that at least I was able to be part of that history. My regrets and sorrow are that future generations will never know or experience such glory. Like the Roman empire of centuries ago, history has shown us that nothing lasts forever. God bless the U.S.A. as she will never shine as bright again.
I posit it is pessimistic attitudes of the right, such as the one you’ve expressed, and not the optimistic attitudes of the left that are destroying this country from within.
Ooookkkkk you just trashed both sides, so you don’t have a side?
I expressed my opinion, not “trashed” anyone. The right is a pessimistic lot as shown by the preponderance of the evidence through their posts on this blog alone.
How, exactly, is portraying the left as optimistic “trashing” the left?
Pessimistic perhaps, but realistic for sure! Wake up snoopy and take off those rose colored glasses. This country is spiraling downwards faster than a meteor from space. And like Nero fiddled while Rome burned, our elected officials are off on Holiday break whilst our Nation waits for them to pull a rabbit out of a hat. I suppose you believe that continuing to spend and give away money we don’t even have is the answer. Raise taxes on the remaing Americans who actually work for a living? Perhaps we should give our money to more solar companies so they can then declare bankruptcy? Or would you prefer to just give it to countries like Libya, because after all they will be oh so glad to help us in our fight against terrorism. Oh wait what happened in Benghazi? ??? No worries!!!! America home of the brave, but also of the foolish.
For the record, which you will surely ignore, I am against giving funds or arms to anyone other than our own. I am against subsidizing anyone from private farmers (Big Ag) to Big Oil or any other socializing of losses while privatizing profits (aka bankruptcy). Fix the tax code and let private remain private – sink or swim – without my taxes helping them out.
P.S. The government’s energy portfolio has only experienced an 8% loss while the typical Romney “private equity firm” averages in the 20% loss range. Might want to check facts before presenting fictions and look honestly at public and private losses compared to public and private successes.
Sorry I went off topic a tad, Mr. Willis. But “he started it” (nya nya nya) with all that tangential bloviating. It’s customary to respond (in kind) when addressed directly.
I suppose some is better than none. :/
I have thought about this quite a bit and this is what I have come up with: The difference between a Liberal and a Conservative is this, as a Independent Conservative if I see you running full bore towards a cliff I’m going to stop you for a second and tell you “hey man if you keep going you’re going to run off this cliff” and then I will let you go and do whatever, if you decide not to heed my warning and you run right off the cliff and attempt to fly then so be it, I’m not going to feel sorry for you, I’m not going to shed a tear, I’m going to stand there at the edge of the cliff and look down at your broke twisted body and say “dumbass”. On the other hand a Liberal see’s you running off a cliff will do anything and everything up in to killing you to stop you, because “it’s for your own good”.
You obviously have a very distorted (and extremely misguided) view of those on the left of the political spectrum. As an Independent Progressive, I, and every other of my political persuasion that I know, would do exactly the same as you would. Even allowing your thought process to conclude a “liberal” would kill someone is sick.
Your characterization is completely baseless and simply based on some preconceived ideas you’ve been indoctrinated with by the radical right intent on assigning the most negative…and nearly always erroneous… of characteristics to the left.
“up [in] to killing you”?! Really? REALLY?! WOW…just WOW!
Snoopy snoopy snoopy, your just sooo perfect aren’t you. I will freely admit that my grammar needs some work, as well as a few other things. Now on to your reply “Even allowing your thought process to conclude a “liberal” would kill someone is sick.” I will refer you to the treehuggers, the antiprochoice and the PETA all of which are liberal groups and have indeed killed people to promote their cause.
Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. I have never feigned perfection and I have no control over your inferences. I will not apologize for possessing above average intelligence and not fitting the preconceived notions that liberals are “uneducated, unemployed, basement dwelling, lazy, entitled and intolerant”. If you are “offended” that I use proper grammar, that is your issue, not mine. My intent was not to criticize your grammar but rather not repeat the error.
That said, I would challenge you to provide citations to your generalized statements. Don’t forget to include the bombing of abortion clinics, the murder of abortion doctors, surely by those pro-choice “leftist groups”. (You are aware that “antiprochoice” is primarily a right-wing ideology? Pro-choice is a standard of left-wing ideology, though.) I’ve never heard of death by PETA but you surely have a citation to back it up and to educate us. Not sure what “treehuggers” have killed but you’ll educate us on that also.
Thank you in advance for supporting facts.
Kenneth, please be aware of the Snoopy double-standard. He will constantly demand precise factualy back-up for every point you raise but when you provide it will diss it as immaterial. Also he will usually provide his own “absolute truths” without support of fact and then resord to personal attack when you merely ask for support. Let’s focus on the issues and not the people – that alone will drive Snoopy crazy.
I understand Mr. Willis, standard liberal S.O.P.
Standard Conservative dismissiveness S.O.P. when unable/unwilling to support wild accusations made. So let’ concentrate on the issues you raised. Can you provide evidence beyond the rhetoric of your accusations of liberal murderers? I addressed the grammar issue as inconsequential and not intended to be derisive.
Naaa it’s obvious that you have drank too much of the kool aid already.
That’s twice you’ve personally atacked me now, Kenneth. “Kool aid” references do nothing to further discussion.
Have you found the evidence of your accusations yet? Or do you feel you are given a pass on proving accusations?
Anxiously awaiting your discussion of the issues you brought up, sans personal attacks. It’s really “driving me crazy” not know of what you posted. I want to know all I can about murderous liberals.
Snoopy, I am really trying to let you roam free, but you don’t seem to get how non-productive your comments can be.
Seems to me;
1. We are veering from the topic.
2. An example of Liberalism (as opposed to liberals personally, because I expect the Vice President firing periodic shotgun blasts out the window of The Naval Observatory to scare away potential rapists results in only near-misses) which, by enacting Liberal ideas, has been responsible for the death of countless millions dieing from the easily controlled by the use of the banned DDT….Malaria.
Please pardon my grammar. I typed too fast. Shameful, I know, breaking a “perfect” streak.
Mr. Willis, you know full well you have a very “tight leash” on me. The only reason my comments are “non productive” is because you give a pass to those who make false claims and attack me personally while taking every opportunity to chastise me (punitively censor) when I do try to engage posters in dialogue (or challenge outrageous claims).
You allow completely non-productive comments such as “kool-aid” references and the always empty platitude of “liberal SOP” while incessantly attempting to censor me through your punitive (and completely non-productive) comments to my posts, never addressing the substance of my posts other than dismissively as “non-productive” or worse. Blatant attacks on liberals are welcomed while the slightest calling out of a conservative here and the poster is berated with memes such as double standard, “drive him crazy”, etc, etc.
This blog post tried to claim the minor, defiant children were “censored” because they chanted ‘USA USA’ yet I am censored time after time because of my dissenting opinions.
The only reason my comments are “non productive” is because you don’t hold the posters of the wildest accusations to the same standards you hold me and applaud the personal attacks on my articulate, alternate viewpoint comments. Vitriol of a Massie is applauded while my tame comments comparatively are characterized as personal attacks despite their clear attack/poking/prodding of others’ ideas.
Reminder to Mr. Willis and others who continue to attack me personally:
“Central to Thinking Right will be the comments from our loyal readers – comments that I hope will be as interesting and diverse as the stories and commentary themselves. In keeping with my primary purpose in creating this blog, it is my hope that the comments will attack, poke and prod at the thoughts presented rather than attacking the people presenting them. I like it when I am challenged with a thoughtful and researched assertion attacking the facts or opinions presented. Processing these contrary ideas helps sharpen our thoughts and produce better results, personal attacks do nothing to improve the debate and discourse.
Of course the Snoopy Dance moniker invokes a person in the mind of the reader/author so separating the person from the thoughts presented has become difficult for many, including the author, but I will endeavor to challenge the thoughts of others – until I’m “suspended” as the students chanting ‘USA USA’ were (I mean weren’t).
I understand Mr. Willis, standard liberal O.P.
More false accusations, Mr. Willis? I really expect better of you. I have provided plenty of factual information, with links, to back up my statements, and refute yours, only to have them ignored and summarily discarded with a “nuh uh” or being berated publicly as you have done here once again, without your ever having addressed the substance of my comments.
Your comments are without substance, Mr. Willis, and you have every post of mine to provide supporting facts for your contentioins. Kenneth’s accusations of liberals killing people to advance a cause are equally unsupported until he provides support for his generalizations. You claim to not want personal attacks here, but you view any criticism or request for supporting facts of conservatives as an “attack” and then take it “personally” while at the same time your comments above are nothing but a veiled – nay, blatant – personal attack on me. Concentrate on the post and not the poster, Mr. Willis. What say ye to the allegations of Kenneth’s liberal murderers?
Your Missive Statement is that you want facts, yet you allow the right-leaning posters to get away with generalizations while ignoring left-leaning posters’ facts presented. Double standard, indeed! And dare I say hypocritical? Yes, the standard Conservative S.O.P. is to accuse without supporting information – fling it and see what sticks. Kudos for consistency!
Is your intent to “drive me crazy”? That would be a blatant form of punitive censorship, would it not? Trust me, nothing “drives me crazy”. I posit my posts do indeed have that effect on you, however, as borne out by our “history” on this blog. Even your refusing to discuss our “personal issues” off board do not “drive me crazy” but only reinforce what I state in those unanswered emails. I have “conformed” to your every demand and yet you still excoriate me at every opportunity when you don’t like the “yammering” from this “idiot”. You’ve offered your blog to the public yet limit what is “allowed” here through intimidating comments like the above, even when comments do not violate the ever-changing, behind-the-scenes “rules”.
So, how about some factual evidence of your accusations, Kenneth, or will you just shrug the request off and consider yourself “right[eous]? “It” doesn’t stick until you do so.
/yammering
Thank you, Mr. Willis.
Well, I don’t understand why they have to shout ‘USA’ in a high school game. Are they playing against some other country?? I don’t know why they are provoked! But, this isn’t gonna help. These boys will go home and think they are helpless and do something stupid. Also, more people should realize that irrational patriotism is as stupid as religion. To quote something I like-’ Only one earth existed until man came and divided it into many countries, glad there are no men on moon, they’d divide it too’
Incredibly articulate, Lisabeth.
Lisabeth, it is really irrelevant whether you understand why they shouted “USA.” The beauty of our country and the First Amendment doesn’t care what either you or I feel about each other’s speech, people still have the right to speak without GOVERNMENT intervention.
IMHO, the safety of the many outweigh the freedom to screech of the few. The incorrigible children chose to leave, and chose to return to incite the crowd – period.
Insight, not incite.
It’s the INTENT of the speech, and these petulant. smart Alec minors were intent on inciting the crowd and skirting authority – period. The outcome could have been tragic had the administrator not attempted to keep order. This conversation would be quite different had students been injured or worse in a brawl which could have easily escalated to a riot, would it not?
Safety first!
/incrediblearticulation
Couldn’t disagree more Snoopy. Our rights first and foremost. As soon as someone starts preventing speech in the name of safety, the person making that determination’s point of view suddenly becomes preeminent over all others. Strikingly unAmerican.
FIRE ! ! ! (safety is secondary.)
There are limits to “free speech”, as you well know. See how free your speech is in front of a GOVERNMENT judge when you yell an expletive at him…or a police officer.
No limits = Anarchy. You and your ilk concentrate on the chant and not the intent of the chant and give the little (expletive) a pass because of what was chanted. What if they chanted anything else…say “TACOS TACOS TACOS”? Harmless or inciteful?
Stupid administrator trying to keep order and a safe environment for ALL of the students. Shame on him for expecting order! As long as a smart ass, rebellious kid can do what he wants hiding behind the 1st Amendment (after he defied the authority’s rules.) Merely an excuse of convenience to CYA after the fact.
The kids were wrong – period! The administrator was right to exert control over the crowd for the safety of all – period! Speech was not the issue for the delinquents until after the act. Petulance was clearly their motivation, and I posit much more than that.
P.S. You do know they weren’t suspended, don’t you? Or haven’t the right wing aggregators caught up with the truth or corrected their lies? I’ve only seen the left media present the facts of this case. The right is “outraged” over something that didn’t even happen.
There can obviously be appropriate consequences for words after they are spoken such as in the case of shouting fire in a theater or libel and slander. In this case you are taking completely appropriate words and worrying more about the reaction to those words that the right of the students to speak them. Anyone starting a fight with someone chanting USA has a problem – don’t protect their interests over the interests of the students reasonably exercising their rights.
The words weren’t the issue, other than to the lunatic fringe that is desperate to falsely equate controlling bad behavior with censoring speach.
The behavior of the juvenile, immature whiny kids was the issue.
Shame you’re too obtuse to see the obvious.
I will let this argument trail off here, but I am not “obtuse” just because I don’t agree with you.
We actually agree with regard to Free Speech. What we don’t agree on is the juveniles’ motivation.
Thanks for the dialogue.
Dear Mr. Lipman,
As Principal of Camarillo High School, I would think you’re level of education and professional experience would have taught you a few things. It seems to me those have only become a stumbling block to you instead.
I am disgusted, outraged and beyond disbelief at your actions of the five boys suspended for chanting USA and wearing American Flag Bandanas to a high school basketball game. Can you please tell me when and who suspended the 1st Amendment right of Free Speech? Can you tell me what nation your school resides in? Can you explain to me how being patriotic and proud to be American, even if it offends someone else, is racist???
Perhaps you need a broader pespective and should study your history and sociology more carefully. As one who has traveled extensively through America, Canada, Mexico, Colombia, and the countries of Europe, I can tell you that a competitive spirit and patriotic passion resides in every single human being within those countries. They are proud to be Colombian, or Mexican, or French or German or British. Since when is it criminal and inappropriate for Americans to do any less? If anything, we as Americans who live in the greatest, freeist, most prosperous nation in history have a right to be proud to be American. The people of other nations only dream of coming to America to enjoy what we have here, while still being proud of their race and nationality, and they are extremely vocal and at times physical about it. I’ve witnessed it and been on the receiving ned more times than I can count. I know what it’s like be a white minority in Mexico or Colombia. The happily and condescendingly call Americans “Gringo”, “Yankee”, “Americano”, along with a string of expletives and derisions that would peel the paint of a wall. They have no problem looking down upon us while we travel or live in “THEIR” country. They have no problem mocking us because we don’t speak their language to perfection. They have no problem letting us know of their disdain and disrespect for being white, or American, or whatever… because we aren’t the same as they are.
Racist??? Sooooo… MLK day isn’t racist? Black History month isn’t racist? Black MIss America isn’t racist? Cinco de Mayo celebrations aren’t racist? Studying Islamic History or African History or showing Mexican Pride isn’t racist? How do you feel about Gay Pride and Gay Celebrations… isn’t that racist? Celebrating Native Americans and their culture isn’t racist? But wearing a bandana to a basketball game and cheering USA IS racist…even though this is… or used to be America??? Being proud to be American is racist…even in America? Even if you’re a Hispanic wearing an American Bandana and shouting USA???
I am so sick of this ant-America, anti-Patriotism, anti-Constitution, anti-White, anti-Christian, Political Correctness, Fairness and Equality crap I want to beat some sense into someone with a stupid stick. What in the hell has happened to everyone? And where is the common sense? Nothing in life is fair… didn’t your parents teach you that? Nobody and nothing is Equal… if we were, we’d all look the same, have the same IQ, have the same education, same language, same standard of living, same religion, same talents…. tell me where we are equal??? I’ll tell you… we are equal only in opportunity to achieve the level of success and education we are willing to work for based on OUR merits, not the merits of others. We in America are Equally Free to be who we want to be, what we want to be, say what we want to say, worship whomever or whatever we want, and pursue happiness as we desire it so long as it doesn’t INFRINGE on the rights of others to do the same thing and have the same freedom, without fear of repression or punishment from tyrannical Communistic government and civic leaders! That’s what “ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL” means, and nothing more!!!
California is noted for their celebrating DIVERSITY. I guess that only goes for Hispanics and Homosexuals. So much for equality and fairness. So much for tolerance and compassion. So much for being proud to be an American…. I guess only Mexicans can be proud of being Mexican, or Germans proud of being German, or only Colombians can be proud to be Colombian while in America. I can see where being American must seem so burdensome and terrible that we aren’t allowed the same privilege we give to others. You need a reality check sir. Human beings are born different from one another in every conceivable way. We all have differences that make us better or worse than others. I thought being tolerant meant allowing others to celebrate their own uniqueness while they allow us to do the same. Political correctness is destroying America and all the it has come to represent for over 200 years…Freedom and Opportunity. I am very disappointed that an educated, intelligent man such as yourself would lose sight of that fact and fall prey to the Socialist Mantra of human homogenization attempting to make everyone equal without any joy in being unique, special, and taking pride in who they are. And that includes being American.
I hope you’ll take this to heart and reconsider your disturbing and very un-American actions towards those boys who were suspended for being proud to be American and exercised their 1st Amendment Right to express that pride. I would also urge you to apologize publicly to the boys, families, students, and others within your district for publicly humiliating them and taking away their Constitutional Rights and Privileges. It was truly disgraceful… but repairable.
Sincerely,
Guy L. Stephenson
Smoopy, dude, I encourage you to lighten up.
I take a back seat to no one on respecting and admiring the flag of the United Staes of America–from 13 to 50 stars.
I doubt that the boys were wearing American flags–they were Bandanas in the style of American flags. Can you understand the distinction? You see, it is the difference between military rifles and “military-style” assault rifles. What’s that you say? Oh, you want to ban both. I see.
Never mind, then.
Bill-Lee, bro. I encourage you to brush up on the Flag Code and re-evaluate which seat you’re sitting in. Or do you always selectively honor what you want to honor to suit your narrow-minded agenda? I uphold ALL sections, not just pick and choose.
Curious you’d make a derogatory remark on my presumed stance on banning weapons. But then you’re an obvious conservative where “the accusation is enough” and “facts don’t matter”. Do you always attack windmills? Thankfully you’re retired military and not influencing young minds with your propaganda.
Since I’m new to all of this, I started reading old postings from the right side of the blog. Very interesting some of these posts are.
This story about four youths kicked out of a ball game is beyond belief. For Snoop to ask for facts about murders, I didn’t have to go very far.
A month or so back there was a story about fifty Clinton era liberal deaths. These liberal people were killed because they either knew too much, or were no longer useful to either of the Clintons. From a cabinet member to those who donated time and ‘money’.
I find that all this BS you write here is quite disrespectful to other’s whom want to be heard. Try to stay on the subject at hand so the rest of us follow along.
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